Here is an idea to make aiming and shooting more challenging in a 2D Soldat-like game. Basically the bullets travel in a 2.25D plane instead of just crossing the screen. The bullet fires at the point your mouse cursor is actually at. So to shoot a dude in the head you must aim just like in an FPS – at his head. These pictures explain it all.
The last picture shows why this approach is correct from a realism point of view. It is still to be considered if it is fun and has gameplay value. I’ll definitely try it out in Link-Dead.
If you want to implement this make it an additional option for a server as most ppl won’t like it imo.
In 3d you point at enemiy’s direction – not at him. In 2d you do the same. If somone is not on your screen and you want to shoot the bullets will never hit them. what do they hit then? I like the filtering on stairs/platforms but this is just not a good idea.
I’ve played a few 2D shooter flash games that have this feature. I feel as if its a little cheesy to be honest, but just my opinion. 2D games should stay 2D!
As mmankt said, what would happen to a lovely soldat spray? 😀
Plus if lags in Link-Dead were same as soldat’s ones, that idea would be insane and probably drive people to madness. But why not to try =)
mmm
how about the closer the cursor is at the enemy, the more chance to hit him ?
I aggree with mmankt, i think this would be awesome to fin many different server!
After playing soldat for 4 years i cant imagine that this cursor thingy would work out for me fine, but we ´ll see 😉
I’ve tried a few games with this feature but it always felt awkward. The idea is novel (certainly adds to the atmosphere of the game if you can shoot up particular parts of the level scenery). But I don’t play that way at all – I never move the mouse over the targets, instead using tracer fire to guide my shots.
Maybe you could still implement like this: whenever the line of sight from the gun would hit the target normally (ignoring cursor position, just using the angle), you have the bullets go toward and hit the target (if the target doesn’t move). But if there is no target intersected by the line of sight, then the scenery is shot up instead as shown in your graphic.
you have a your opponent are moving targets and have desert eagles both, plus the weapon recoil. The result of that it’s a never-ending battle… 😀
sorry
>EDIT
you and a your opponent are moving targets and both have desert eagles, plus the weapon recoil. The result of that it’s a never-ending battle…
I like the “stringycustard” idea.
If you implement this, make sure it only takes effect after the bullet has traveled a good distance.
That way spraying gets less effective, and you won’t have people complaining about how they lost a kill because the bullet just traveled past the guy instead of hitting him.
Sounds cool but I think the idea should be scratched. It would be much easier if you had a small % of bullets miss its target and possibly hit the guy behind him. Besides, even without your idea, aiming at a guy on a 2d plain is almost just as hard as aiming on a 3D plain.
No more spraying!
Although in both 3d and this system you need to place your mouse essentially on the target to hit it, the 2d target is far smaller in terms of screen space than the 3d one. Also, MG spray-and-pray or suppressive fire might be somewhat meh with this system.
However, the idea of making it hard to hit people but making bullets really kill stuff dead is a good one. I think this system could work if you added depth-scatter; even if you aren’t aiming quite at the right x-coordinate to hit the target, the bullet can still z-scatter and poke leaky holes in them. Aiming directly at the target should merely make it more likely that the bullet lands.
You’ll probably end up with a sort of RPG-style hit-and-miss system, which isn’t actually so bad for a tactics game. Reminds me of what I’ve seen of Valkyria Chronicles actually, except not quite. But yeah, z-scatter is a good idea for tactics. And at the very least it should be interesting to see what comes of this idea, since not many have actually used it.
Yeah, it’s what I thought it would be, and I don’t really like the idea the way it is now, i’m sure it’ll be really nerve-killing.
A possible way to do this more appropriate is giving each player a surrounding area in which he gets hit. So if I point somewhere in the vecinity of my enemy (say, +-5 meters), the bullet hits him, else it behaves as described in the drawing.
Don’t limit the target to the player-sprite itself, extend it to a circle around the player-sprite with a reasonable diameter.
agreed with tenshi
THIS IS THE BEST IDEA EVER!!! 😀 2.25D FTW!!! I would love to watch my bullets penetrate walls (facing screen) and go exactly where my mouse cursor is. This does make aiming harder as you’re no longer just aiming in the direction of an enemy but actually have to keep the cursor on him. Then again, if you think of 3d shooters or target shooting games where say you’re controlling a turret and shooting at aircraft, that’s where you’re shooting at the cursor as well – as in you have to keep your cursor on the enemy in order to hit the enemy. So, this is perfect. I can’t wait.
i like that idea
Yeah, definitely make it depend on distance and bink. It won’t look very realistic if your 2.25D character is effectively stick thin.
The soldat way is perfect, do not change it.
btw:
Brazil 1 x 2 Netherlands.
=(
I dislike this aim-point-fire style for shooting. It may make aiming too difficult, especially for those who are first playing the game, and are trying to figure out why their bullets aren’t hitting what he expects them to. Also, the same applies for all those Soldat players who will probably try out LD at one point.
Besides, wouldn’t this make it impossible to shoot those outside the screen?
This also disallows those accidental kills if there is one person in front of another person, and your bullet slightly misses, but hits and kills the other person. The aim-point-fire concept will ruin most of those great moments.
Make it so bullets don’t hit the wall when you aim past em, then you could implement a cover system.
Makron’s idea is good, but this still doesn’t allow you to shoot people beyond the screen limits (not a necessary feature, sure, but funny).
Besides, this would probably just lead to people aiming as near to the screen-edge as they can all the time.
how hard/easy is it to implent, or otherwise, how many time would it take ? you should release a alpha version with both the systems and test them out with players
EDIT : you dont have to include shit in the alpha except for a pistol/rifle and the systems and networking
uh..cs2d has this already.. you get better accuracy if you place the crosshair closer to the player (or something like that)
it’s topview though
OMG those pictures reminded me that i have to play jagged alliance 2. Or X-com. Totally awesome idea.
You already have something similar in link dead when shooting at stairs.
I dont see the point to shoot at a 2.25d “direction” when you have enemies only in 2d.
IMO you could make a system similar to that just to make the playar able to shoot at exploding itens.
See:
P——E–EI—–
P=player E=Enemy EI=Exploding Item
To hit the EI, P can shoot between E and EI (but the bullet will have a small chance to hit the E as well). If the player shoot behind the EI, the bullet can hit either E or EI (more close = more chance to hit).
This is a good idea, as long as there’s a chance a poorly aimed shot still hits, with shots closer to foes that aren’t aimed at them having a better chance of hitting. So if you fire a shotgun at point blank range you’re not going to arbitrarily miss your target.
if its you only hit the enemy by clicking on him so whats its the point of shoting in a hole in a wall if wont hit nobody
btw its a good ideia its sounds kind diferent to me i’m in doubt of somethings but it will make a whole new game not just similar game of soldat
This doesnt seem like a good idea to me. Part of the beauty of aiming through people is that it in a way decreases mouse sensitivity. But not just that, i think there are a lot of fundamental flaws with this, still be interesting to try though.
Sniper fail.
Let´s go MINIGUN!!!!!!!
This idea sounds like something I wouldn’t like but MM is the expert here.
Please remember that this will not be Soldat. I agree it wouldn’t work in Soldat. Link-Dead will have slower moving targets and they will be much bigger.
As mmankt said, what would happen to a lovely soldat spray?
It’s the best way to get rid of spraying.
Stringycustard: that’s an interesting modification, I’ll think about it.
Other ideas are out of the question. There can’t be a system that “increases your chances of hit by some %”. The player needs to know EXACTLY if he will hit the player or not. It is the essence of a challenging shooting game.
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